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03 July 2013

Wait, So You Think The Texas Abortion Law Is Extreme??? Have You Taken A Look At Abortion Laws In Europe & Elsewhere???

 As if you would ever need one...

'It stuns me that conservtives think that an obnoxious protest is somehow more indicative of extremism than laws which close all the abortion clinics but one in a state.'

- libfreeordie on July 3, 2013 at 9:08 AM

‘Cuz, like, um, er, ya know, I want the government to regulate everything except for ‘women’s health’ clinics ‘cuz I totally believe that, ya know, regulations should be more strict on veterinarians than doctors, who perform procedures on my sistas which could cause sterilisation, grave bodily harm, and, well, ya know, that pesky thang called ‘death.’

You make a HUGE mistake in assuming that only conservatives support such laws.   I'm not one nor is Kirsten Powers; yet, we support it.  I know that this must come as a Shocka!, but 62% of Texans support this law. 50% of all American women support this law.   You see, liveenslavedthendie, even women, who actually can become pregnant - unlike you without a surrogate, recognise that a 20 week-old foetus is NOT a 'lump of cells.'  The science has moved on.  You idiots are still living back in 1973.

Tell me this, liveenslavedthendie, why should only abortion clinics be free of regulation?

Why should a doctor that performs oral surgery or spays pets be held to a higher standard than doctors that can destroy ‘women’s health’?

Why do you think, em, like, abortion on demand FOR ANY REASON AND UP UNTIL A BABY IS BORN should not be slapped with the label of ‘BARBARIC’ when even all of those social democracies in Europe (that have you’d love to emulate) have banned the death penalty and abortion after 12-13 weeks except in VERY, VERY, VERY STRICT CIRCUMSTANCES ‘cuz, like, um, ya know, they know barbarism when they see it?

Let's look at some of the abortion laws from Europe and elsewhere, shall we?


Legal for any reason up to 19th week.

After 18th week, a woman must obtain permission from the Socialstyrelsen (National Board of Health and Welfare).

After 22 weeks, abortions are banned except in the cases to save the life of mother (ONLY severe physical, medical conditions qualify; no psychological case) or because a foetus has deformities to such a degree that it would not be viable AFTER birth.

If her mum had had an abortion, someone else would have to hold that sign.


Legal on demand up to 12-weeks after conception.

Abortions at later stages of pregnancy are allowed if two physicians certify that the abortion will be done to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; a risk to the life of the pregnant woman; or if the the child will suffer from severe disabilities that are incurable. 


Abortions are legal in first trimester, but are conditioned upon mandatory counseling. 

After 12 weeks, only for medical necessity to save life of woman or because the foetus suffers from abnormalities that would render it nonviable after birth. 

ALL abortions can only be performed after MANDATORY counselling and a 3 day waiting period. 

But, Texas is extreme! 


...which probably has the next most expansive abortion laws after the United States (without getting into places like China).

Legal for first and second trimesters.

In third trimester, abortions can only be performed in the cases of severe abnormalities, grave risk to woman and to save the life of the woman.

Abortion in the UK is still heavily regulated, can only be performed by certified medical practitioners, and require a diagnosis of the following by TWO, REGISTERED MEDICAL PRACTITIONERS pursuant to Abortion Act 1967 (§ 1.1):

Subject to the provisions of this section, a person shall not be guilty of an offence under the law relating to abortion when a pregnancy is terminated by a registered medical practitioner if two registered medical practitioners are of the opinion, formed in good faith -

(a) that the pregnancy has not exceeded its twenty-fourth week and that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated, of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman or any existing children of her family; or

(b) that the termination of the pregnancy is necessary to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; or

(c) that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk to the life of the pregnant woman, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated

(d) that there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped.


On demand until the 21st week. Required 5-day waiting period.

From 22 weeks until 24th week, abortions are only allowed where there exists an urgent medical situation.

25 weeks and later: Banned. 

But, according to liveenslavedthendie, Texas’ law is extreme even though it has grave risk to health of mother, rape and incest exceptions.

Who knew that secular Europe was full of fascists???


Legal on-demand for first trimester (14 weeks after last menstrual cycle).

In the 15th to 22 weeks, abortion is only allowed in cases of serious risks to life or health of the mother or foetus. 

After 22 weeks, a pregnancy can only be terminated in the cases where ‘foetal abnormalities incompatible with life’ are detected or the foetus has an ‘extremely serious and incurable disease,’ which is ‘confirmed by a clinical committee.’ 


On-demand abortions are only legal in the first trimester. 

In the second trimester, a pregnancy can only be terminated when the life of the mother is at risk, the foetus carries genetic or serious abnormalities that would endanger the life or health of the mother, if forced to go to term.

There is a 7-day waiting period between authorisation and the procedure. 

Women must be at least 18 years old unless a minor and her curator appeals to a court for relief and a judge signs an order. The judge must make the decision within 5 days of the request. 

 Embedded image permalink

'If I wanted government in my womb, I would fuck a Senator!'


Legal on-demand until 12th week.

Must be 18 years old or have parental consent. 

After 12th week, pregnancies can ONLY be performed without authorisation if a woman’s life or health are in danger.

In addition, during the 2nd & 3rd trimesters, a woman can seek government authorisation in limited circumstances:

1. Risk of foetal abnormalities.

2. Rape/incest.

3. Threat of severe mental health consequences.

4. There exist extreme socio-economic conditions (hard to show in a gigantic welfare state like Denmark). 

A few more from Europe:

Austria: 12 weeks

Belgium: 12 weeks

Bulgaria: 12 weeks

Czech Republic: 12 weeks

Estonia: 12 weeks

Greece: 12 weeks

Hungary: 12 weeks

Latvia: 12 weeks

Lithuania: 12 weeks

Luxembourg: 12 weeks

Poland: 12 weeks

Portugal: 12 weeks

Romania: 14 weeks

Slovakia: 12 weeks

Slovenia: 10 weeks

Who knew secular, social democratic Europe was full of 'rigid, religious ideologues and extremists'?




1. Consent of woman AND HER SPOUSE (not father of foetus)

2. Rape/incest

3. Woman’s health will be severely endangered if pregnancy not terminated. 

Anyone, INCLUDING THE MOTHER, who tries to abort a foetus will be prosecuted criminally. 

No abortifacient has been approved in Japan. Imported abortifacients can be prescribed by ONLY APPROVED PHYSICIANS. Anyone else, INCLUDING THE MOTHER, who attempts or succeeds at aborting a foetus through the use of abortifacients shall be criminally punished. 

Contraception was not even legalised until 2011. 


Who are the extremists, again?


Abortion is available in the first trimester in ONLY 13 of the 31 states.

Since 2011, more than a dozen women have been sentenced up to 30 years in prison in the 18 states where the state constitutions ban abortions.

Exceptions (with the caveat that ALMOST NO STATE PROVIDES ACCESS):

1. All states permit abortions in the case of rape.

2. Only 28 states permit abortion to save the life of the mother.

3. In 14 states, abortions are permitted where there are severe foetal abnormalities. 



A woman, who performs her own abortion or consents to one where there is no threat to her life nor is the pregnancy the result of a rape, faces to 1 to 3 years detention. 

Anyone, who performs an illegal abortion with the woman’s consent, faces 1-4 years detention, which is elevated by 1/3rd if the woman suffers any physical harm and doubles if the woman dies. 

Sentences of 4 or fewer years can be converted to non-incarceration punishments, such as community service and compulsory donation to charity. (As an aside, I love the ‘compulsory charity,’ don’t you?)

As a signatory to the American Human Rights Convention, Brasil recognises the right to life to human embryos, ‘in general, from the moment of conception.'

This recognition grants embryos legal status on a par with the Constitution in under the law of Brasil. 

The rights of the unborn are also protected under Brasil’s Civil Code.

In 2008, however, the Supreme Federal Court ruled (6/5 vote) that a foetus’ right to life only applies to intrauterine embryos. Frozen embryos are not afforded such recognition of the fundamental right to life and constitutional protections like that given to intrauterine foetuses.

A 2010 ruling by the Supreme Federal Court held that foetuses with anencephaly, ONLY, can be aborted.

A 21 week-old 'foetus' born alive, who has survived

But, it’s, supposedly, Texas’ proposed law that is ‘extreme’ not the people demanding late-term abortions that other advanced, Western and developing countries have recognised to be barbaric.  What a joke you Baal-worshiping idiots truly are with your two Holy Sacraments of abortion and homosexuality.  I can tell you that, for the majority of Americans, including women, neither is sacred or high atop their list of priorities.

No, liveenslavedthendie, the only extremism here is being displayed by you and the Texas pro-aborts. Most Americans believe that abortion should be banned in the second and third trimesters because advancements in science have led the way. You and your friends may believe that you are forward and progressive, but, in all actuality, you are nothing more than Luddites when it comes to science and medicine.

Anyhoo, I hope that you extremist pro-aborts keep it up.  You've chosen a great hill on which to die...with your extremist and minority opinions.


'The GOP really is insistent on limiting abortion rights and shrinking the franchise. Indeed, it seems to be the *only* aspect of their agenda they are interested in forwarding these days. These are issues that absolutely galvanize liberal women and people of color to organize and turn out the vote and (at least in the last two elections) have done little to turn out their own base. How can this be good strategy?'

libfreeordie on July 3, 2013 at 9:07 AM

Galvanise women for late-term abortions and safety regulations for abortion clinics?  LOL.  Talk about being extreme and out-of-touch.  The facts are quite different. 

According to a June National Journal poll, 50% of WOMEN SUPPORT, and 43% oppose, a ban on abortion after 20 weeks, except in cases of rape and incest.

In the same NatJour poll, the results on late-term abortion (where the question is somewhat biased against the pro-life side) are even more stark.  The poll's question claims the bill passed last week in the House of Representatives only contains exceptions in the cases of rape or incest without mentioning that there is also an exception for when a physical health condition puts the life of the mother at risk. Despite the biased question, the poll still finds that a majority of women support the bill (50 percent to 44 percent), with Americans overall backing the bill 48 percent to 44 percent. Independent voters back the bill by 14 points (53 percent to 39 percent).

In January, Gallup reported in January that 80% percent of Americans think abortion should be illegal in the third trimester, and 64% think it should be illegal in the second trimester. 

‘In terms of substantive policy, most of this is not particularly right-wing. Maybe the abortion stuff. These are abortion positions that are actually not strongly opposed — there is a 2-to-1 preference for that.
– Daron Shaw, co-director of to the latest University of Texas/Texas Tribune Poll and a professor of government at the University of Texas at Austin

According to the Gallup poll: 

Q: Do you think abortions should be legal under any circumstances, legal only under certain circumstances, or illegal in all circumstances?

26% believe that abortion should be legal under any circumstances 

52% believe that abortion should be legal under certain circumstances

20% believe that abortion should be illegal in all circumstances

Q: With respect to the abortion issue, would you consider yourself to be pro-choice or pro-life?

48% consider themselves to be pro-life

45% consider themselves to be pro-choice

Q: Next, I’ve going to read you a list of issues. Regardless of whether or nor you think it should be legal, for each one, please tell me whether you personal believe that it is morally acceptable or morally wrong. How about abortion?
42% believe it is morally acceptable

49% believe it is morally wrong

8% believe that it depends upon the situation

Q: Would you like to see the Supreme Court overturn its 1973 Roe v Wade decision concerning abortion or not? 

29% say that they would like Roe overturned 

53% say that do not want Roe overturned 

18% say that they have no opinion (which probably means that they lean to the overturn side more than the uphold side since pro-aborts are more likely to zealously guard against the overturning of Roe. One would think that they would very much be in the ‘don’t overturn’ camp if they considered the right to an abortion to be worth defending)

Q: Would you like to see abortion laws in this country made more strict, less strict, or remain the same? 

44% say that they are satisfied with current abortion law

27% say that they are dissatisfied and want stricter abortion laws

8% say that they are dissatisfied and want less strict abortion laws

11% say that they are dissatisfied with current abortion law, but don’t want them changed (O_o)

 Q: Thinking more generally, do you think abortion should generally be legal or generally illegal during each of the following stages of pregnancy.  

How about during the first trimester? 

61% believe that it should be legal 

31% believe that it should be illegal 

6% believe that it depends

Q: How about the second trimester?

27% believe that it should be legal

64% believe that it should be illegal

5% believe that it depends

Q: How about during the third trimester? 

14% believe that it should be legal 

80% believe that it should be illegal 

4% believe that it depends

And, in Texas where the pro-aborts, who are chanting ‘Hail, Satan!,’ have been rebuked and rebuffed by even THE CHURCH OF SATAN? 

62% of Texans support the bill banning abortions after 20 weeks now before the special session. 38% want more stringent abortion laws and 35% either believe the law should be left as it is (21%) or don’t know. ONLY 26% want more relaxed abortion laws.

Also, you still seem to be suffering under the delusion that Roe v Wade is the controlling law on abortion in America?  It isn't.  T The 1992 decision, Planned Parenthood v Casey, 505 U.S. 833 (1992), rather, does and the Supreme Court recognised that the state has a compelling interest in procreation and can slap reasonable restrictions on abortion.  Some of the restrictions that the Court upheld:

* Ban on abortions after 24 weeks

* The informed consent rule that required doctors to inform women about detriments to health in abortion procedures.

* The parental notification and consent rules that require minors to receive consent from a parent or guardian prior to an abortion.

* 24-hour waiting periods.


  Make these two the faces of your late-term abortion & unsafe women's clinics movement.  Please...with sugar on top and a jar of cherries!

 'The GOP really is insistent on limiting abortion rights…'

- libfreeordie on July 3, 2013 at 9:07 AM

Luv, you lost the ‘women & choice’ argument when you supported Obamacare, which took away the ‘choices’ of this highly-educated and financially-secure allowed to be made by THIS WOMAN. You also have no problem with the government coming between THIS WOMAN and her doctor. If you did, you wouldn’t have supported Obamacare.

So stop whining or I'll have to call for the WWWWHHHAAAAAAAMBULANCE!

'I think the (Gallup poll) stats show that generally people support a woman’s right to make this decision for herself….but that doesn’t mean they don’t also struggle with it on many levels.'

- verbaluce on July 9, 2013 at 5:04 PM

I think that is a true statement as to the first trimester. In the second and third, as you can see, the support for abortion rights take a nosedive.

Like the majority of Americans, I oppose second and third trimester abortions. While I would prefer no abortions, I – again, like most Americans – could ‘settle’ for the time being on first trimester abortions remaining legal until science, medicine, and technology catch up. It is not because I fail to believe that life begins at conception; rather, I understand that abortion, like the poor, will always be with us, but reasonable restrictions and the understanding that a foetus’ rights increase as it grows, which is the law by the way, are acceptable. Banning second and third trimester abortions except in the case where a woman’s life or physical health is at grave risk is not something that most Americans oppose.

On the issue of overturning Roe, which isn’t actually controlling law any longer, I think that many people fail to understand what would happen if such did happen. Overturning Roe or Casey would revert abortion law to where it was in 1973: A state issue. It would not ban abortions of any kind.

I would submit that many people think that the choice is black and white. It actually isn’t. Abortion would not become illegal overnight, which I believe is the reason that you see some fairly inconsistent opinions. Americans support bans on second and third trimester abortions, but at the same time, they want Roe and abortion laws to stay the same. I think that they believe - incorrectly - that they can’t have one without the other.

On a personal level, I’m not sure where I come down on overturning Roe and Casey. As I said, I could live – for the time being – with both remaining in place; provided, restrictions could be placed on partial-birth abortion, which is a barbaric, gruesome practise that isn’t even supported in the social democracies of Europe that many want to see the US emulate.

I think the biggest challenge that pro-aborts face is the advancement in science, medicine, and technology. As medical advancements have helped very premature babies (21 weeks) to survive, the American public has pushed back on ‘abortion on-demand’ in all circumstances. The support for abortion has actually fallen with the increase in technology like sonograms and the ability for younger and younger ‘foetuses’ to survive if born prematurely, as Gallup's polls from the 1990s onward indicate:

I think that we can safely say that the more a foetus resembles a human being, the less Americans will support its termination. As I wrote above regarding a truism that even Marx and Engels recognised, human compassion and identification increases with relation and solidarity. The more people are alike, the more they are willing to share and work for the common good. The more a foetus looks like a human, the more that humans will identify with it.



chris said...

Got the law for Canada?

Predictable-History said...

Canada is one of the few countries in the world that has no limitations on abortion on the national level. In the provinces, abortion restrictions, regulations, and access vary.

I need to add Canada. I don't know how I could have overlooked it.

Of interest: Google 'Fourth trimester abortion' and Canada.