Fund Your Utopia Without Me.™

15 August 2012

Why Would The Federal Government Purchase Over 1 Billion Rounds Of Ammunition That Has Been Outlawed, Internationally, For More Than A Century?

"A site called is reporting that certain federal agencies, even the National Weather Service, are buying massive amounts of .40 caliber hollow point ammunition, which is not the type used for practice. Does anyone know if this is true? If it is, that along with a virtual news blackout on reporting it is troubling."

- deprogramming services, 15 August 2012

Yes...and hollow-point ammo was outlawed in international warfare by The Hague Convention of 1899, Declaration, it could only be for domestic use...unless, somehow, The Hague Convention of 1899 prohibiting hollow-point ammo doesn't count, but Common Article 3 of the Geneva Convention of 1949, which doesn't specifically outlaw waterboarding, does....when a Republican does it.

Why on earth would the National Weather Service, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the Department of Education, the Social Security Administration, and the Department of Homeland Security need OVER ONE BILLION ROUNDS OF AMMUNITION - much of which is ILLEGAL for use in international warfare?

In March, DHS ordered 450 million .40-caliber hollow point bullets. It has ordered a further 750 million rounds of different types of ammo in a separate solicitation that also expires on August 20, including 357 mag rounds that are able to penetrate walls.

Why does the SSA need 174,000 rounds of hollow point bullets? Are they expecting a Bonus Army-like march on Washington when SS/MC implodes?

I am not into the whole Reichstag stuff, but there is no reason for these departments to be purchasing over a billion rounds of ammunition that is ILLEGAL to be used against our enemies. I mean, we couldn't even use hollow-point bullets against the bloody Nazis!

Memos are circulating within the military, DHS, NSA, FBI, and CIA "wargaming" the Civil War of 2016 with a scenario that has the Tea Party taking over a town in South Carolina (or NC) and the Feds having to send in a "full complement of military personnel and resources." The questions include "What would be the American public's response be if the Federal government opened fire on American citizens on American soil?" and "What would the American public's response be if the Federal government seized a governor of a state and/or legislature, who refused to permit Federal access to troops and personnel under Posse Comitatus?"

If they are even asking those questions, it shows how far out of touch they are.

Not to debate the subject or merits, but I would suggest the old flower children, Vietnam protestors, and "Peace, Man" kiddies in DC recall how the American people reacted to Kent State.  

“Did you really think we want those laws observed?” said Dr. Ferris. “We want them to be broken. You’d better get it straight that it’s not a bunch of boy scouts you’re up against… We’re after power and we mean it… There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What’s there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that’s the system, Mr. Reardon, that’s the game, and once you understand it, you’ll be much easier to deal with.”

― Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged


"Easy – behind the curve thinking.
From November of 2008 through to early 2011, most of the popular calibers of ammunition (rifle and pistol) were selling out of all production runs by ALL manufacturers.

The demand was so great, many new companies were started to get in on the “lead rush” and have been reaping the rewards.

In total, somewhere north of ten billion rounds of ammunition were sucked up by civilian purchasers during that time period.

At the gun shows I was attending at the time, it was common to see people lined up early with hand carts who went in and bought rounds by the thousands (with cash) and who rolled their loaded up carts back out the door in the first half hour. If you didn’t get there early … “No ammo for you!”

Anyone stupid enough to believe the police or armed forces are going to try to seize control of the country this fall (including any potential government usurpers) have a naturally occuring vacuum between their ears.

I have never known an LEO or military person who wanted to be on the wrong side of 100:1 odds. I have never known a military person who had not learned one of the most important lessons of Viet Nam:

“It is impossible to control a country where 5% or more of the population is willing to engage you in armed insurrection.”

(FYI – Iraq and Afghanistan only underscored that lesson.)

Incidentally, the best historical estimate of the highwater of support for the Revolutionary War was 12% – before the war started. It went down from there … and the good guys still won.

Supposedly, all the hollow point ammunition is being bought for annual LEO forces qualifications.

As may be, all of the above still applies."

- PolAgnostic on August 16, 2012 at 10:10 PM

I am not behind the curve. The Feds have purchased more than 1 billion hollow-point rounds, which have been illegal for use in international warfare since The Hague Convention of 1899, Declaration III.

The issue isn’t so much the amount, but the type. The military cannot use hollow-points on a foreign battlefield. If we couldn’t use them against the Nazis, what’s the point? Where else would the Federal government use them? As I said in my post, I’m not a Reichstag-fire-type of person and am certainly no conspiracy theorist; however, The Hague Convention of 1899, Declaration III, only applies internationally. It doesn’t apply domestically and, as I further said, there is a wargame memo that is circulating within the govt re: "The Civil War of 2016."

I am not a military person. My expertise is in the areas of law and economics, but you don’t have to have any in-depth knowledge of any of the three to know that the country — indeed, the world — is perilously close to a catastrophic event due to sovereign indebtedness, financial houses of cards, political instability, and the growing threats from China and radical Islam. It is not inconceivable to think that the OBAMA ADMINISTRATION would be preparing for civil unrest. Further, considering the facts that Obama has:

1.   Taken it upon himself, unilaterally, the right to deprive Americans of their due process rights;

2.  Taken it upon himself, unilaterally, the right to assassinate Americans;

3.  Has threatened, intimidated, and harassed private property owners into ceding their property and contractual rights in contravention of the Constitution and Federal law;

4.  Asked Congress to give him and has received the power to indefinitely hold Americans without charges, habeas corpus rights, and right to counsel;

5.  Has demonstrated his willingness to circumvent Congress by issuing Executive Orders to grant de facto amnesty to millions of illegal aliens even though the Dream Act was defeated in Congress;

6.   Has demonstrated his willingness to circumvent Congress by sending money to the Palestinians even though Congress voted against same;

7.  Has demonstrated his willingness to circumvent Federal law by refusing to enforce immigration laws;

8.  Has demonstrated his willingness to circumvent Federal law by refusing to defend DOMA, which is the law of the land and he must abide by it;

9.  Has demonstrated his willingness to circumvent Federal law by issuing waivers under Obamacare, NCLB, and welfare reform where such are not permitted under Federal law; and

10.  Has demonstrated his willingness to circumvent the Constitution by making recess appointments when the Senate could not possibly be in recess pursuant to Art I, Sec 9).

The above are just a few of the many examples of his propensity to do as he wishes.  With a man, who has a propensity to circumvent the law, obfuscate, and prevaricate, who knows what he would do faced with widespread, civil unrest or something similar to "The Bonus March"?

Perhaps, my cynicism comes from being a Brit and watching the EU-USSR. For example, the death penalty is banned in all member states; however, in the Soviet-like EU, with its 27 unelected, unaccountable apparatchiks, it was reintroduced in a footnote to the Treaty of Lisbon, upon neither the whole nor part of which the overwhelming majority of Europeans were allowed to vote (Polls in the UK routinely reflect that 85% of the population want an In/Out referendum on EU membership.  Labour refused.  The Lib-Dems refused.  Even the damn Tories, not always known as Europhiles, have refused). In its “explanations” and “negative definitions” accompanying the fundamental rights, the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union allows a reintroduction of the death penalty in case of war or imminent war, but also the killing of humans to suppress insurgency or riot.

Think about that for a moment: Anders Behring-Breivik murdered 79 people and maimed dozens more; yet, he will serve, at most, 21 years in a prison that is more plush than any hotel most Americans will ever visit. On the other hand, the European Soviet can kill you if you riot against or attempt to overthrow it regardless of how justified either are.  Seriously, the EU imposed an unelected technocratic government on Italy.  Riots or an attempt to overthrow such a government imposed without consent of the government could result in the death penalty being imposed on countless numbers of Italians merely wishing self-determination, democracy, and for a say in their own government!

And, people like Obama and his fellow Progs believe that the United States should become more like the EU where a few “uber-educated, elitist, unelected experts” will make the decisions for the unwashed masses because “modern life is just too complex for the average individual to make the correct decision.”

So, colour me a tad suspicious when a government, who believes in the power of the few and not the individual citizen, purchases over a billion rounds of a type of ammunition that it cannot use in Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, Uganda or on any other foreign battlefield else it face war crimes trials in the Hague. Unlike hollow-points, waterboarding is not specifically banned in any international agreement including the Geneva Convention of 1949, but the use of hollow-points in international warfare would be a clear violation of international law.


"Anyone stupid enough to believe the police or armed forces are going to try to seize control of the country this fall (including any potential government usurpers) have a naturally occuring vacuum between their ears."

- PolAgnostic on August 16, 2012 at 10:10 PM

I wasn't talking about this fall.  The memo refers to "The Civil War of 2016" with the hypothetical "Fort Sumter" being a Tea Party-like group (of course) taking over a town in South Carolina, holding the mayor hostage, imprisoning blacks, and the governor refusing the Feds entry into the state.  The queries involve those along the lines of "How would the American public react if the Federal government sent the military in and opened fire on the Governor's Mansion and citizens with heavy armament incurring mass casualties?"  "Would there be widespread rebellion in reaction?," etc. 

If you read my blog post, you will see that I said something to the effect of "about as well as Kent State, not debating fault or necessity of KSU."  

I realise that most LEOs and military will not ever side with a POTUS over the citizenry.   I have no doubt that any POTUS that attempted to takeover and become "president for life" would find himself/herself quickly Zelaya'd.


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